Vermont’s U.S. senators had their first chance Wednesday evening to ask questions during the ongoing impeachment trial of President Donald Trump.
After senators sat in silence for several long days while House Democrats and the president’s legal team laid out their arguments over whether the president froze military aid to Ukraine in order to pressure an investigation of the Biden family, the trial moved into the question phase this week.
Rules bar senators from asking questions themselves, so Sens. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., and Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., submitted their inquiries by written note to Chief Justice John Roberts, who read them out.
Sanders asked why senators should believe Trump’s defense in the trial.
“Given the media has documented President Trump’s thousands of lies while in office — more than 16,200 as of January 20 — why would we be expected to believe that anything President Trump says has credibility?” Sanders asked, through Roberts.
Question from Senator Sanders to the House Managers:
— Senate Democrats (@SenateDems) January 30, 2020
Given the media has documented President Trump’s thousands and thousands of lies while in office—more than 16,200 as of January 20—why would we be expected to believe that anything President Trump says has credibility? pic.twitter.com/rO6Gkl1ae3
Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., who chairs the House committee that spearheaded the investigation into the president, responded to Sanders’ query by saying he wasn’t quite sure “where to begin.”
“At the end of the day, though, there’s no more interested party here than the president of the United States. And I think we have seen he will say whatever he believes suits his interest. Let’s instead rely on the evidence and rely on others. And one is just a subpoena away,” Schiff said, referencing John Bolton, former national security adviser to Trump. The New York Times reported on Jan. 26 that Bolton has firsthand knowledge of the president’s decision to pressure Ukraine.
Leahy, for his part, used his question to hear House managers’ response to the claim by the president’s lawyers that the nearly $400 million in military aid to Ukraine was released before a public investigation into the Biden family was announced and therefore proves there were no unsavory dealings.
Q from @SenatorLeahy to House Managers:
— Senate Democrats (@SenateDems) January 29, 2020
The President’s counsel argues that there was no harm done, the aid was ultimately released, the President met with Zelensky at U.N., the President’s treated Ukraine more favorably than predecessors. What’s your response?#SenateQuestions pic.twitter.com/PNcVkkpZV4
“The president’s counsel argues that there was no harm done, that the aid was ultimately released to Ukraine, the president met with Zelensky at the U.N. in September, and that this president has treated Ukraine more favorably than predecessors. What’s your response?” Leahy asked.
Rep. Val Demings, D-Fla., one of the seven House members arguing the case, said that contrary to what White House counsel has argued, the reality is that not all the aid has been released to Ukraine.
“The aid, although it did arrive, it took the work of some senators in this room who had to pass additional laws to make sure that the Ukrainians did not lose out on 35 million additional dollars,” Demings said.
“Holding the aid for no legitimate reason sent a strong message that we would not want to send to Russia, that the relationship between the United States and Ukraine was on shaky ground. It actually undercut Ukraine’s ability to negotiate with Russia, with whom, as everybody in this room knows, is in an active war, and a hot war. So when we talk about the aid — it eventually got there, no harm, no foul — that is not true senators, and I know that you know that,” she added.
Leahy also joined fellow senators to ask a number of other questions probing the position of Senate Republicans to block additional witnesses from testifying.
Both Leahy and Sanders have joined Democrats in calling for more testimony and evidence to be introduced. On Thursday, as senators began another eight hour session of questioning, it looked unlikely Bolton, Trump’s chief of staff Mick Mulvaney or any other witnesses would be called on to testify.
Before entering the Senate chamber Thursday, Leahy told VPR that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., still has the votes to move forward with the impeachment trial and acquit the president.
“There’s no question if Mitch McConnell wants to arbitrarily exonerate the president, in his mind, if he refuses to bring forward witnesses who know what happened, he can do that,” Leahy said Thursday.
Leahy added that based on conversations with his Republican colleagues, he believes some are siding with McConnell and Trump “out of fear of repercussions” but others are “honest in their belief the president did nothing wrong.”
Vermont’s senior senator, who is the dean of the Senate, has been reluctant in the past to say whether he believes Trump is guilty of the articles of impeachment, but in his Thursday interview with VPR, he came the closest yet to saying his mind is made up.
“It is a pretty remarkable abuse of office when you tell a foreign power if you don’t help me get dirt on my potential opponent then I will hold back hundreds of millions of dollars that had been appropriated to help you fight the Russians,” he said.
Leahy, who has been photographing the proceedings, said he hoped to get in one more question to examine a claim by Alan Dershowitz, one of the president’s lawyers, that if a president does something which he believes “will help him get elected in the public interest,” he cannot be impeached.
“Where in heaven’s name can anybody find anything that can back up such an outrageous unsubstantiated claim,” Leahy said.
