Editor’s note: Anne Galloway interviewed Lt. Gov. Brian Dubie, the Republican candidate for governor, about his stances on gay marriage, abortion, school district restructuring, Act 60, property taxes, budget cuts, the rainy day funds and raising new taxes. The interview was conducted on June 18. Because of the length of the transcript of the Q and A, we will be running it in three parts. Tomorrow we will post Dubie’s answers on energy and the environment. On Friday, vtdigger.org will run his economic policy statements. What follows is a tweaked-for-clarity, verbatim telephone conversation.
Social issues
Vtdigger.org: Would you repeal gay marriage if you became governor?
Dubie: No. No. It’s the law. It’s passed. My agenda is really looking forward. I will say as governor I will ensure that all families and all children and all Vermonters are treated with respect and dignity. Period.
My agenda would be uniting Vermonters.
Gay marriage has passed, and as chairman of a school board I knew from our surveys that the most important thing beyond educational quality was for a mother or child or family member to know that a child was safe in school, and that’s the most important thing. And it underscores all families are valued, all children are valued, and that means sexual orientation, gender, race, and the best thing I could do is to work to grow our economy, and that would impact all families, regardless of makeup.
Vtdigger.org: Under your administration, would you propose restrictions on abortion?
Dubie: Abortion is a federal law of the land. I am pro-life, and my agenda in running for governor is to help create jobs. I will continue to support pro-adoption efforts like Project Family, which I’ve been a champion for, and I continue to support the Lund Family Center. I would continue to find common-sense, common-ground legislation like baby-safe legislation of which I testified for the Senate Judiciary Committee. That’s the common-sense, common-ground agenda that I would support, promoting adoption.
That’s what I’ve done, and that’s what I’ll continue to do.
Vtdigger.org: So you wouldn’t be proposing things like requirements that teenagers get a sign-off from parents?
Dubie: That’s not my agenda. My agenda is to grow jobs. My spirit has been — on abortion and other tough issues — to find common ground to try to bring Vermonters together. Others might use this as an issue to drive us apart. My spirit has been to find common ground as I did on baby-safe legislation.
Education
Vtdigger.org: Will you advocate for a mandated student-to-teacher threshold of 13-1 for Vermont schools like the governor has proposed?
Dubie: I would say no. I cut my teeth in public service on the school board. I’m sympathetic to the local governance structure. I’m really cautious. Caps and numbers and formulas make me uneasy.
Vtdigger.org: Is school consolidation necessary?
I favor consolidation where and when it makes sense. Our focus as a state needs to be on children and educational quality for children, and we need to understand that bricks and mortar and programs and contracts really should be responsive to the needs of children, and that would be my focus.
Vtdigger.org: Do you support H.66 (the voluntary school district merger bill)?
Dubie: Well, it passed, and the conversation has started. It’s a good step toward moving toward comprehensive reform. These are not simple issues – they’re very difficult issues. I think the education of a child is not simple. I know this first hand, and it’s a step in the right direction toward comprehensive reform in incremental steps.
Vtdigger.org: So you disagree with the governor on this one?
Dubie: The governor didn’t veto it. I think the governor’s criticism was it didn’t go far enough. I would look at it and say it went somewhere, it’s a start. Let’s take what we can. I’ve just done a three-day jobs tour. I met with towns like West Dover and Stowe and Hyde Park and East Burke. It’s not an easy issue. Let’s take what we can. Would we have liked it to go further? Yeah. But it is what it is, and let’s celebrate what we can and roll up our sleeves and keep the conversations going, and, as we do that, focus on kids and focus on the need for educational quality.
Budget cuts
Vtdigger.org: Where would the budget cuts start in your administration?
Dubie: Forty percent (of our state spending) is in human services, 33 percent is in education and 12 percent is in transportation. We need to look to where the majority of our spending occurs.
We have asked, and we will continue to ask, our state workers to do more with less. That’s a reasonable expectation. Families are doing it; dairy farmers are doing it; small businesses are doing it. Everybody is doing more with less.
It is also realistic, in light of a $122 million revenue shortfall, that we will have to take a look at what state government is doing and (whether) the investments we make as a state in programs … are providing the return on those investments consistent with the expectation that the taxpayers would have with those expectations.
It’s going to be continuing to ask for efficiency and effectiveness. That work has begun. We’re also going to have to continue to ask questions about investments in programs, (about whether) they are providing the returns we expect. That may mean doing less with less.
When we look at our state — and in May 2009 there was an analysis by The New York Times that ranked the top six social services and benefits, and they ranked all the states from best (most generous) to worst — and the state of Vermont came out at the top of that ranking. The per capita income of Vermonters is more in the middle. And so, we’re going to have to make sure our programs are aligned with the ability of Vermonters to pay for those programs, and that is a difficult conversation but one that we’re going to have to continue to have.
Vermonters have always had a generous heart, but we need to make sure it’s consistent with our pocketbooks.
The very basic, fundamental realities are, programs cannot grow faster than the underlying economy. So my focus as governor is to help grow the underlying economy, so we can generate the revenue that would be required for our social services programs, for our commitment to educating the next generation to provide a safety net for our seniors and most vulnerable and for us to continue to make investments required for a clean environment – lakes, rivers and streams, clean air. That’s why my focus is about growing the underlying economy for the state of Vermont and adopting a pro-growth agenda.
Vtdigger.org: Are there some specific areas of state government that you think can and should be cut at this point?
Dubie: As you remember, there are collaborative Tiger Teams that were put together with state employees that put together comprehensive reports that identified areas that we could save and deliver services in a more efficient way.
I’m in the process of compiling, analyzing that work as the campaign goes forward. I announced on Saturday (June 12) and here it is Friday (June 18). So as the campaign goes forward, I look forward to sharing with more clarity what areas that our state workers and people that participated in those Tiger Teams recommended as potential savings, and as we go forward, I will provide more clarity. I’m in the process of analyzing that work at this time.
Vtdigger.org: I’ve heard from state workers who say that the Tiger Team groups didn’t ask employees what they did and what they thought about their own programs. And I’m wondering whether or not your administration would be more inclusive in getting perspectives from people on the ground who are doing the work.
Dubie: That’s helpful. So, unlike all the other candidates, I’m a member of a union. When I fly my airplane, for American Airlines, on every flight I know how much fuel I burn, and I take great pride in the fact that I score better than my peers in saving fuel on standard routes that my peers fly. I know as a member of a labor union, and as an employee on the front lines, that our real savings are to ask our dedicated state employees who are serving the public.
We need an ongoing conversation that affirms and embraces suggestions from the people doing the work. As an example, IBM recently saved millions in reforms, and one of the suggestions from employees saved $50 (by eliminating a computer monitor that wasn’t needed), and the new plant manager said it isn’t much, but we had to send a message that we listened to this one employee.
That’s the kind of governor I would be. I would ask and ensure that the people doing the work are the people who are asked first. It takes process and procedures, but it takes an attitude from the top that we can learn best from the people who are doing the work. I would know that as a member of a labor union and someone who serves the public, and I certainly would know that as Vermont’s next governor.
Vtdigger.org: Are there any circumstances in which you would use the Rainy Day funds (the state’s stabilization monies) or raise taxes?
Dubie: It’s a no, but never say never. What I would do, Anne, is I would double the Rainy Day funds so that I could say yes. Long-term, I would make an effort to double the Rainy Day funds to go from a 5 percent to 10 percent reserve. The size of Rainy Day funds, and the fact that they were set up for when Legislature isn’t in session, if there’s a downturn, then you’ve got the ability to absorb that when the Legislature can’t really respond. So never say never, but I would say yes, long-term, let’s expand the Rainy Day fund, which would give us more flexibility to manage our finances going forward, but I would not be inclined to do that (tap the Rainy Day fund).
Vtdigger.org: How about taxes. Would you raise taxes?
Dubie: I’ve never signed a pledge, Anne. I’ve never signed a no-new-taxes pledge. I would say the Vermont taxpayer is not in a position to raise taxes, but once again I’m cognizant of a 9-11 attack or an unanticipated event. Vermont taxpayers do not have the capacity for additional taxes – that would be my commitment — but a leader needs to make sure that they are thinking about the unexpected, so I would never sign that (a pledge).
My platform is to lower taxes, Anne. My agenda is to lower taxes, because as I listen to Vermonters, what they tell me is, if we had lower taxes in this state, we could grow jobs and grow opportunities. I’m very mindful that we have a $2 billion obligation to our retired state employees and retired teachers for pension and health care obligations. I think we need to honor our commitment to those who served (the state). We need to adopt a pro-growth agenda which includes lowering taxes and cutting red tape to grow opportunity.
Vtdigger.org: Should the property tax relief program be changed or dismantled?
Dubie: I would say … stay tuned. What I mean is, we need comprehensive reform. We need to make sure there is a connection between a vote for a school budget and the implications for the taxpayer. My campaign will be about solutions.
I conducted a jobs listening tour, and as a result of that tour I have developed an agenda. I’ll do the same thing with education reform. I’ve met with two superintendents this week. We need comprehensive reforms. So I will share my reforms as my campaign unfolds.
Vtdigger.org: Does that mean getting rid of Act 60?
Dubie: Everything should be on the table. Comprehensive reform.
Vtdigger.org: Do you think there should be spending caps on local school budgets?
Dubie: I think I guess the word is comprehensive reforms. I think we need comprehensive, common-sense reforms. A discussion about caps should be on the table, and I just put it in the category of comprehensive reform.
