Montpelier 5/16/2012
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  1. Those opposed to VY have used the political system to stack the deck against the plant. They work for organizations who believe all nuclear power should be shut down – Beyond Nuclear, VPIRG and all the PIRGS and Public Citizen (all Ralph Nader originated), and the New England Coalition. Fairewinds believes all nuclear power plants should be shut down, according to the firm’s President speaking at the Vermont Law School on February 9 this year, on a panel with Prof. Kreis

    The hope of having a Comprehensive Vertical Audit was to find issues that will cause the plant to not continue in operation, as happened at Maine Yankee. There, the plant could have continued in operation, but without the requested uprate, per the NRC. But the shutdown to correct issues would have possibly caused bankruptcy for one of the small owners, Bangor Hydro, it is reported. So management chose decommissioning.

    The VY plant knew the deck was stacked against them, and tried to “limit the scope of the inspection” as reported in the press about VY’s legal firm’s report.

    Also, VY and the industry have been very foolish in not fighting back and immediately answering charges. As former US Senator Alan Simpson, now on the Deficit Commission said in Newsweek “A charge unanswered is a charge believed.” The press reports the charges and will report the responses too.

    VY handed their opponents a sword, lifted their shirt and said “here” by sending Jay Thayer and Mike Columb to Montpelier unprepared. At the December 2, 2009 Joint Legislative Hearing, on the Enexus issue, both were asked at the very end of the hearing, is it true there is no UNDERGROUND piping. Both indicated there is no such piping. We know now they probably meant to say there is no BURIED (meaning in contact with the soil) piping carrying radioactive material that could leak. By UNDERGROUND VY meant below grade and not in contact with soil – in an enclosure. There is piping like that connected to the Condensate storage tank, carrying safety related radioactive water. The large covered concrete “boxes” are heated to prevent freezing – I’ve been in them. The Advanced Off Gas piping was found to be in a “box”, but the design was such that it was uninspectable, unlike the pipe I inspected.

    Of course, the opponents were waiting to pounce, as they are getting paid to do, and Jay Thayer foolishly did not be get back to the Committees. Then the leak fom the “box” around the UNDERGROUND, not BURIED Advacned Off Gas Piping happened.

    And Senator Schumlin pounced, rushing the bill to the floor for a vote.

    The larger perspective is that there are 31 countries besides the US with nuclear power programs, 93 reactors under consruction around the world, and 439 reactors for electric power production in operation now. And Senator Schumlin, and Speaker Smith stood behind Deb Katz last spring on the Statehouse steps when she said shutting down VY is the first step in shutting down all nuclear power plants!! What do the Senator, the Speaker and Ms. Katz know that the 32 governments don’t?

  2. Mr. Shaffer wonders what Mr. Shumlin and Ms. Katz know that nuclear governments don’t know. They know that nuclear is poison power. They know that unless it is 99.9% contained, absolutely isolated from the environment, the wastes nuke plants generate and spew into the air and water kill all forms of life. They know that it is costly to build and maintain,(they saw CVPS and GMP nearly bankrupted because of it, and by only passing the stranded capitalization costs on to energy users in other states, allowing Entergy to buy it at a bargain price on OUR backs, kept VY running). They know it is enormously costly to decommission, and utterly impossible to “clean up” or dispose of the contamination. They know that only lies make it appear economically feasible or environmentally defensible. They know that it is not OK to use the common air and water as a nuclear and thermal garbage disposal. They know it is a technology that persists through lies about the real risks, especially to the most vulnerable human beings, and the real costs in health, security, and potential genetic damage as this generation’s gift to future generations. Governments can’t “know” these things or they could not allow a single nuke to be built or operate. Therefore governments look at “cost-benefit” calculations that put a dollar value on someone else’s life. That Someone pays the taxes the government gives away to the greedy poison power mongers, but can get no health care when they get sick.
    What do governments know? How to keep the powerful in power.

  3. Thanks, Mr. Kreis. Your observations of what Ed Tufte is trying to get across are spot on. Having studied with Tufte, I believe these are a few of the essential points he makes in his critique of how we present data and information:

    1. Powerpoint — or Keynote, for that matter — is nothing more than a projection medium. Because we are dealing with a visual medium, what we project and how we do it have the power to illuminate or obscure;

    2. Tufte is an absolute bear on “multivariate data.” In other words, presenting data one way or restricting data to a narrow fact set again can mislead and ill-inform; and

    3. Presentation software programs can make for lazy presenters and lazy audiences. That is a dangerous combination.

    Even many folks who are aware of Tufte’s body of work are unaware that he was a professor of public policy. Therefore, he is a great resource on how information presentation can undermine a sound debate over public issues. Plus, as an artist who specializes in large, landscape-placed objects, Tufte is aesthetically and cognitively attuned to how the senses receive and process images.

    So, thanks again. I recommend that folks also examine Irving Janis’ work on groupthink. Although it is a little dated, it certainly applies to the space shuttle disasters and might even be relevant to Vermont Yankee and the State of Vermont.

  4. Don.

    Thanks for the good words about my blog. This is an important conversation, and I will continue it on my blog with links to your posts here. This is a key issue and I am happy to discuss it.

    I have a lot to say (as usual) and so I think my blog is a better place for me to write most of it.

    However, I do want to comment here on the utility/regulator comments you made above. Yes, regulators have to ask exact questions, and utilities usually do not volunteer extra information in response to the questions. You write about this, however, as if it was a unique utility/regulator issue. That approach surprises me.

    You are a law professor. You know that, in preparing any client for cross examination or hostile questioning, you would advise your client: “answer each question truthfully, but don’t volunteer extra information.” If you were an accountant preparing a client for an audit, you would say the same thing.

    Or would you advise a client, facing a hostile questioner, “Volunteer anything you think will help the questioner”? THAT would be interesting and unusual advice!

    In other words, “the agencies have to ask specific questions” is not exactly a scandal. For you, as a lawyer, to act as if it were an unusual situation….well, you and Claude Rains are shocked, shocked to discover that…

    Don. Please don’t. Please don’t pretend that limited replies to hostile questions is a unique horrible thing that utilities do to their regulators. You are very smart and articulate law professor. You really do know better.

    1. To my friend Meredith Angwin:

      I respectfully but emphatically disagree that a regulated utility (or an employee of a regulated utility) is in the same position, vis à vis regulators, as a witness subject to cross-examination in a civil proceeding. As to the latter, I agree with the classic formulation: If such a witness is wearing a wristwatch and is asked, “Do you know what time it is?,” the correct answer is: Yes.

      This approach might apply — and I use the word “might” advisedly — if a witness for a regulated utility were answering questions from an adverse party in an administrative hearing before the Vermont Public Service Board, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission or the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. But, in my respectful opinion, a different set of imperatives applies, and a different set of ethical standards should apply, in the distinctly different context we are discussing.

      A utility subject to lawful discovery in connection with a proceeding before one of the agencies mentioned above should cooperate rather than obfuscate. Why? Because regulation is not, or at least should not be, adversarial the way a lawsuit is adverserial. Utilities actually benefit from regulation — ask the ghost of Samuel Insull, who persuasively argued, on behalf of the electric power industry he dominated in the early decades of the 20th Century, that states should create administrative agencies to regulate utilities.

      The enabling statutes that each state enacted thanks in part to Insull typically grant the regulator plenary authority over the state’s utilities, including the right to inspect all books and records. It’s part and parcel of the so-called ‘regulatory compact’ — in which utilities submit to that authority, and agree to provide service to all comers, in exchange for the right to a monopoly and to rates expressly calculated to yield a reasonable return on shareholder investment. Part of the utilities’ side of the bargain is the obligation to operate prudently — so that they have nothing to hide. As someone who frequently points to the exemplary safety record of Vermont Yankee, you presumably don’t see any reason for VY to circle the wagons when the regulators show up to inquire about the plant’s operations . . .? Shouldn’t they take pride in the safety efforts they undertake with their customers’ money?

      In the competitive marketplace, all’s fair in love and war. An unregulated company has the right, perhaps even the obligation, to be secretive — to treat any effort, whether lawful or not, to inquire into its internal operations as a hostile incursion. Utilities play by different rules. Just ask all the New England electricity customers who have disgorged hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade or two to compensate utilities for their stranded costs, including but not limited to those associated with northern New England’s other functioning nuclear power plant. It too has a good safety record and, thus, should be pleased when the regulators come a calling.

      Thanks for considering my views.

      1. A few further thoughts . . .

        The astute among you — by which I mean those with the moxie to read this far into the discussion — will point out that Vermont Yankee is a merchant generation facility and not a regulated utility. Therefore, VY is not subject to the regulatory compact I described above.

        Except that it is, in the following derivative sense. Prior to 2002, Vermont Yankee was owned principally by two regulated, investor-owned Vermont utilities (Central Vermont Public Service and Green Mountain Power). As a condition of receiving authority from the Public Service Board to purchase Vermont Yankee, the plant’s current owner (Entergy, in Louisiana) agreed to be subject to certain state authority that a merchant generator could ordinarily ignore. Indeed, the whole tritium pipe controversy arises in the context of the state’s effort to exercise the authority it reserved to itself in connection with Entergy’s purchase of the facility.

        1. My friend Don Kreis

          Thank you, once again, for the thoughtful reply. I think that this interchange is tremendously important. You and I (and also O’Brien on my blog) are not running around saying “they lied” or “they’re the best”. We are really trying to get our facts and opinions in order. A rare moment of civility in what has been a manure-throwing (literally, in one case) situation.

          That said, I am going to respectfully disagree yet again! (what did you expect?) In your post above, you said that when you were with the PUC of a neighboring state, the regulators had to ask very precise questions, or they wouldn’t get answers. And the regulators all knew this. There was a time when I knew a bunch of people at P G & E in California, and they also approached each meeting with the PUC as a battle.

          In other words, this adversarial attitude between utilities and regulators is universal, as far as I can tell. You said the same:”Every utility regulator in the country knows this.” We may, perhaps, regret it, but we cannot deny it.

          In other words, why are you shocked at business-as-usual between utilities and regulators? My comments on “never volunteer” and your comments on how things are done are completely in accord. The only thing out of accord is your assessment that somehow, VY had an obligation to behave quite differently than any other utility.

          This has been an amazing conversation. I am going to put a quick post up on my blog about it. Thank you.

  5. Having read the dialogue between Meredith Angwin and Don Kreis, and having been the perpetrator of manure throwing, (actually, it was clean compost, and not thrown, but sprinkled daintily with smiles and small talk into the water pitchers and glasses of the NRC. O.K., I did toss a handful onto Michael Colomb’s lap, but I wanted to return waste for waste…think of it as a downpayment for the lies that were to come…) I simply have to comment on the irony of this discussion. It is happening in the context of radioactive leaks and corporate lies. Ms. Angwin doubts the presumption that regulators (and the citizens they represent) have a right to the full truth. Without that trust, how can civilized society proceed? Hence Ms. Angwin brings up manure throwing, as if leaks and lies are fine, failure to disclose is fine, spewing tritium, Cobalt and Strontium into our air and water is fine, but sprinkling compost is outside the rules of the game. Precisely. The game, as she would have it, is to voluntarily disclose nothing. I failed the game by fully disclosing what I was putting into NRC’s drinking water, while Entergy sought to hide what they might be putting into ours. Having witnessed the game for the past 10 years, it is clear that there are many ways to hide the truth, and ignore the most important questions. We were not getting answers about what is leaking or had leaked into the groundwater over the past 38 years, because NRC fails to require groundwater monitoring. Having testified to Boards and Commissions and legislative committees that despite documented evidence of tritium in storm drains and cobalt 60 in the river, no one was independently monitoring the groundwater at the site and no one was monitoring 10 of the 11 storm drains for radioactive effluents, I never got a meaningful response to my questions. My efforts to get documents showing tritium leaks that had been referenced in other NRC documents met with a dead end–I was told they were Entergy’s property. When questions with an obvious concern behind them are answered misleadingly, partially or falsely by a regulated entity, or by regulators, the potential victims of all these nods, winks and lies have a right to act to protect their own interests, before catastrophe strikes. And indeed, my concerns were proven to be correct. And yet Ms. Angwin rationalizes Entergy’s false witness? All’s fair in business and finance? Fortunately in Vermont, or at least in the Legislature, truth has a higher value. And so, I might add, has compost.

    1. I wasn’t present for the scatalogical scattering in question, but I am sorry that references to it have found their way into this discussion. I agree with Sally Shaw that administrative proceedings, particularly those dedicated to the lawful examination of the safety, reliability, and affordability of our energy supply, are serious undertakings that call upon the participants to be cooperative and forthcoming. Regulators, in turn, should take with the utmost seriousness their responsibility to be vigilant in advancing the public good.

      In my respectful opinion, it undermines rather than furthers such notions when citizens treat administrative hearings as opportunities for street theatre. The surprise application of manure in such a setting, by whatever method, to make a poetic statement about contamination is certainly clever. And I will even admit that, back in my days as a journalist covering administrative hearings, I would have reported on such doings with glee. Nevertheless, it remains the case that if citizens expect regulatory proceedings to protect them, they should treat such proceedings with respect rather than with contempt.

      1. Thank you Don. I couldn’t have said it better myself!

  6. I hope people remember who is to blame when electricity costs skyrocket in Vermont. When people start going broke and losing their jobs because of energy prices, will you pat yourselves on the back still?

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