Pertussis epidemic, vaccination debate in Vermont makes national news

immunization
“What’s the matter with Vermont?” was the provocative headline in Slate.com late last week. It suggested that Vermont, that lovely Blue but, to some, eccentric state, was up to some of its liberal tricks or behaving irrationally. But the topic, with the subhead “Anti-vaccine activists derailed a bill that could have blunted the whooping cough epidemic,” leveled a serious accusation: that the pertussis epidemic afflicting Vermont over the last few years could have been mitigated had more children been vaccinated for whooping cough and had the philosophical exemption been disallowed, as legislation introduced last year intended.

In her article Helena Rho, a former assistant professor of pediatrics who has taught at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, characterized Vermont — which had the second-highest rate of pertussis cases in the nation during 2012: 100.2 per 100,000 persons — as a state where parents’ resistance to vaccinating their children has contributed greatly to putting more people at risk for the disease. What’s more, the article states that “[i]n parts of Vermont, the vaccination rate is only 60 percent.”

But National Immunization Survey reports for children 19 to 35 months and 13 to 17 years old showed Vermont with rising percentages of infants and toddlers getting all four recommended doses of the diphtheria/tetanus/acellular pertussis (DTaP) vaccine — up from 83.2 percent in 2009 to 88.2 percent in 2011. (This compares to 84.6 percent nationally.) Among adolescents getting the Tdap booster, the rise has been from 87 percent to 90.1 percent. In addition, the Vermont Health Department reports that 93 percent of children entering public school kindergarten are up to date on the DTaP — one more shot is given between age 4 and 6 for a total of five — and 91 percent of children entering seventh grade are up to date. (Private school rates are lower: 83 percent in young children and 86 percent for children entering seventh grade.)

In terms of the rates of immunization, there appears to be nothing “the matter with Vermont.” Vermont Department of Health immunization program director Christine Finley, noting the rise in immunization rates for most vaccines over the last three years, points to a different issue — something the Slate article refers to almost in passing — the evidence that the effectiveness of the acellular vaccine for pertussis now in use declines quite rapidly. The CDC reported last May that measures of Tdap effectiveness within a few years of getting the shots ranged from 66 percent to 78 percent, less than had been expected in pre-licensure trials.

The acellular vaccine was developed in the late 1990s in response to what some saw as too many severe side-effects of the whole-cell vaccine, the DTP, that had been in use since the 1940s and which had reduced annual cases from more than 250,000 at one time to a few thousand a year. Since the 1980s epidemiologists have seen increases, but within a few years of the introduction of the acellular vaccine, these increases were even more apparent and by the mid-2000s epidemics were in full swing, leading to the current spate of research into the causes of waning immunity and into effective methods for once-again controlling whooping cough.

There has been some success in reducing cases. Studies such as one done in Washington state after whooping cough cases increased 1,300 percent from early 2011 to mid-2012 showed that once the Tdap booster was given, adolescent infection rates dropped off. And pertussis is known to increase suddenly, as it did in California a few years ago, and as it has done since 2010 in Vermont, and then diminish. It does, however, still threaten infants especially. Most deaths from pertussis are in infants. All countries vaccinate against pertussis.

The recommended schedule is now five vaccinations by school age — four for infants and toddlers and one in the 4-to-6-year-old age span. However, in September 2011, facing reports of increasing numbers of children who were not getting the full five doses, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recommended the Tdap booster be given at age 7 to 10 rather than 11 or 12, if a child has not had the full five DTaP series by that time. (At the same time, they recommended a Tdap shot for those 65 and older who have contact with infants, since those too young to be vaccinated are most at risk for infection, complications and death. Most of the 4,298 infants reported with pertussis in 2010 required hospitalization.)

The immunology community is straightforward in acknowledging that there is currently, as CDC researcher Dr. Thomas A. Clark and co-authors wrote in a May 2012 paper for Trends in Microbiology, an “incomplete understanding of the immune response to infection and to vaccination.” While some vaccines are much more effective than the pertussis vaccine — and, history shows, some diseases can be wiped out — even getting whooping cough does not confer lifelong immunity, which is why adult immunization is now recommended. But the researchers see limitations to the current pertussis vaccine series, even if regular boosters are administered. What has not changed in the scientists’ understanding of how to fight the disease: herd immunity is the key.

Kate Robinson

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64 Comments on "Pertussis epidemic, vaccination debate in Vermont makes national news"

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Cedar Hannan
3 years 3 months ago
I’m not normally one to throw anecdotal evidence into a debate, especially one as impassioned as this, but here goes. Last month I was at my local health clinic for a routine visit. I made a remark about all the signs around the office instructing patients with a cough to see the receptionist for a mask. My doctor informed me that this was due to all of the pertussis cases that the clinic had been treating lately. I jokingly commented that the vaccine must not be working. Doc looked at me very seriously and said “the vaccine is NOT working”.… Read more »
3 years 3 months ago

So, this local health clinic of 4MDs treated 1/6 of the cases of pertussis for the entire state?

The reduced effectiveness of the vaccine makes a stronger case for vaccination, imo, than against it.

Eric Bradford
3 years 3 months ago

“EVERY SINGLE patient had been vaccinated within the past THREE years.”

As I read it, any child age eight or younger that has not had dtap within the past TWO years has gone too long per the CDC schedule. See http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm#vacc

The issue that the Slate article raises – and that this one does not address – is why Vermont’s per capita infection rate is among the highest. Effectiveness of the vaccine is not a variable in this analysis; every state gets the same vaccine.

3 years 3 months ago
I gotta hand it to the CDC – they’re good at what they do. Now, if only what they did was guard the public health. I was recently sent a still from a 1969 episode of the Brady Bunch, in which the kids all got the measles. They spent the episode joking about it. No one was up tight; no one was concerned; the World Health Organization wasn’t at their door. They just had the measles. The picture I was sent is of the blackboard Mrs. Brady kept in the house, to keep track of which diseases her kids had… Read more »
Laura Condon
3 years 3 months ago

No comment needed, Shawn…just standing and applauding.

Jennifer Power
3 years 2 months ago

I’m standing next to Laura. Thank you Shawn. Again.

Wendy Luebbert
2 years 11 months ago

Also applauding

Louis Sullivan
3 years 3 months ago

Except these diseases do kill people, and often times the people most at risk from them are the ones who receive the least protection from vaccines: the elderly, the young, and those with compromised immune systems. This makes the need for everyone to step up and contribute to herd immunity all the more pressing. Perhaps the Brady Bunch handled this issue lightly because it is a TV show, meant to make people happy, not depressed? Your comments on how immunity works show you do not understand how vaccines operate at all.

Nikki Lee
3 years 2 months ago
Fabulous post, Shawn!! I took my youngest daughter to get chicken pox when she was nearly 4; a friend had 4 kids that all had chicken pox. My daughter got a nice case and now doesn’t have to deal with the outbreak of shingles that so many who are vaccinated are. There is risk in everything; there is risk in childhood diseases, particularly if children are poorly nourished, as formula-fed kids are, who lack any immune system boosting. There is risk in vaccinations too. Not easy to be a parent. I prefer not to put aluminum and mercury and peanut… Read more »
Anne Imhoff
3 years 2 months ago
“My daughter got a nice case and now doesn’t have to deal with the outbreak of shingles that so many who are vaccinated are.” I’m afraid you are incorrect. Once you have chicken pox, the toxin remains in your body and you are subject to shingles later in life. In my youth, in the 1940s, I had chicken pox, measles, etc., and was vaccinated for diphtheria and small pox. Other vaccines were not developed at the time. I was exposed to polio, but never got it (fortunately). BUT in my late 50s, I had a terrible case of shingles. Since… Read more »
Jill Oberheide
3 years 2 months ago

Thank you, Shawn! Saves a lot of people a lot of time replying…. My grandchildren, all 7 ( soon to be 8) of them are 2nd generation vaccine-free kids, as my own 5 were never vaccinated. Thankfully we live in a country where we still have that right. Here’s hoping we’ll always have it.

Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
There was no fear in the 60s because these diseases were not preventable in any way, it was just something that kids had to go through as a part of growing up. Some of these diseases led to serious complications, though. So I am pretty sure in the back of Mrs. Brady’s mind, she was hoping that her kids got through their illnesses without anything bad happening to them, which, as Louis mentioned, is kindof hard to show in a program that is supposed to be upbeat and happy. Vaccines are the victim of their own success – we now… Read more »
Carl Werth
3 years 2 months ago

Right on, Kathryn. If I am going to stand up and applaud any post here – it’s yours.

3 years 3 months ago
“What’s the Matter With Vermont” portrays Vermont’s advocates for vaccine informed consent as people who spread misinformation about vaccines. The author even attempts to lay blame on vaccine choice advocates for the national and cyclical whooping cough outbreak and goes so far as to try to convince us that one Vermont lawmaker is annoyed that we Vermont peeps have a voice (called democracy) in deciding our fate. Can you think of anything wrong with having a voice in your own democracy? A voice in the preservation of your inalienable human rights to consent and parental choice in medicine? In many… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 3 months ago
A couple comments I have in response to your post: -I support democracy. Fully. However, what I do not support are the growing number of people who are trying to take advantage of parents by deliberately lying to them. Mercola, Wakefield, to a lesser extent Sears – these are all people who are trying to make a profit from the fears of parents. I cannot think of an adjective that properly describes how awful this practice is. -I agree that the pertussis vaccine is not great. We need a new one. But some protection is better than no protection, so… Read more »
3 years 3 months ago

If you are truly concerned about folks profiting from the fear of parents, you should seriously consider reviewing the available literature and comparing it to the messages crafted by the very powerful, well funded vaccine industry and parroted by the cogs in their wheels.

Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 3 months ago

I routinely do. What I find usually matches up with the reports I receive from the CDC, which is a good, free source of information.

3 years 2 months ago

Glad to hear you are exploring the literature, Kathryn.

If so, you will no doubt have read the March 1, 2013 CDC MMWR report describing concern over a vaccinated person who “shed” live virus and caused an infection in one human who then passed it on to another.

What do you make of this news, and what do you think the implications and unintended consequences may be?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6208a2.htm?s_cid=mm6208a2_e

Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
I love the MMWR. And that case was certainly an interesting one, however: this describes the spread of vaccinia virus, which is used as a smallpox vaccine. The smallpox vaccine is an older vaccine, and very few people routinely get vaccinated against smallpox. Because of the way the vaccine is designed, it is known that spread of the live virus is possible, so people who get the vaccine should be given extra education on this known phenomenon. Notably, any contraindications for the vaccine also apply to close contacts – from the CDC immunization website: “Because the vaccinia virus used in… Read more »
3 years 2 months ago
Nor does the CDC focus on and rely on the studies that find have merit or are scientifically sound. The CDC cherry picks what supports them and ignores the rest; and that is clearly a proven fact. If that were true the CDC would have funded some vaccine aluminum adjuvant studies long ago; based on several damning studies in existence. To claim to that Kathryn, then you are obviously not aware of what studies exist, and most all of them are as well found in Pubmed. There are many existing studies that support Wakefield’s findings, and some as well that… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago

How about you post the articles you find on PubMed, instead of linking through a website designed to mislead the public?

3 years 3 months ago
It is time that the CDC started paying attention to ALL valid and existing scientific studies, instead of ignoring whatever doesn’t fit their cheery picking needs. They have the power and the authority to do that you quite obviously so; but it certainly does NOT serve the public good. How had would it be for them to collect at least a data base of relevant science, from pubmed alone? WHAT are they getting paid to do at the CDC? Is it a full time job to ignore the obvious, deny the facts, and defended against the obvious harm failure of… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 3 months ago
Just because you are able to publish a paper doesn’t mean that you have great data – Andrew Wakefield proved that one pretty well. So the CDC actually does review all the scientific literature and relies on those that are scientifically sound when making policy decisions. I read through the two papers that you listed, and I have a few problems with both. With the first, regarding the infection in mice – I would use these data to start an actual study in humans. The immune system of a C57BL/6 mouse is not going to be the same as a… Read more »
3 years 3 months ago

Appreciate you sharing some expert opinions, KK, especially your analysis of the papers being proffered here.

Jill Oberheide
3 years 2 months ago

WOW!!! Thank you SO much!

Kate Robinson
3 years 2 months ago
Vermont’s rate is high right now, as the article states, because whooping cough incidence rises and falls independently of vaccination rates and no one knows why, though research is underway. Vermont is one of the three states showing the highest levels of pertussis in the country these last few years, along with Wisconsin and Minnesota. California had epidemic levels in 2010-11. The CDC tracks the fluctuations )separately from mortality and morbidity data as the ‘migration’ of pertussis is independent of vaccination rates. However, they recommend the Tdap booster for older people, especially those who could come in contact with infants… Read more »
Katharine Hikel, MD
2 years 4 months ago
Kate is right on about the natural rise and fall of disease – as we saw with Reye syndrome, which ebbed in societies where aspirin was not commonly used; meanwhile, in the USA, we took a perfectly good medication (aspirin – thought to cause Reye syndrome) out of use and replaced it with another (acetomenaphen aka Tylenol) – which recently was named the drug most responsible for liver toxicity due to overuse. And! She’s right about the decline in effectiveness of vaccines, as we’ve seen in outbreaks of measles in young adult populations who were vaccinated in childhood – with… Read more »
Mark Moore
3 years 2 months ago

There may be a bad word or two in this –

3 years 2 months ago

Penn & Teller video. Warning: The “F” word gets some play here.

Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
Well, I have been studying vaccines for the last couple years and I shall have to stand on the side of Jennifer Stella. She has done her homework! She knows exactly what she is talking about! A person cannot just read “one-sided” medical literature and know the real facts. Senator Mullin from Rutland started this whole “can of worms” about vaccines last year. Follow the money! He has a terrible conflict of interest, folks. He is the state chairman of the organization ALEC which represents the large pharmaceutical companies. And he gets contributions from them to get legislation passed on… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
Hi Judy, Medical literature is not one sided. It may appear that way because published papers are presenting a result that came from scientific testing. I support vaccination, and I do not work for the pharmaceutical companies. I do not get any money whatsoever from them, and I still think it’s a good idea. I see how sick some children get from a completely preventable disease and then I really think that vaccination is a good idea. The whole reason why there are some interesting legal hoops for people who think that they were injured by vaccines is because if… Read more »
Lisa Mackenzie
3 years 2 months ago
Vaccination rates have steadily risen in the US since the introduction of vaccines. If we compare today’s rates for the vaccines required in the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 20s we see a steady rise in vaccination rates since the start of universal vaccination programs. When a new vaccine is introduced and the vaccination rates for the new vaccine (like chicken pox in Vermont) are stirred into the aggregate rate, yes of course the aggregate rate goes down, but the rates for the vaccines that have been in use for decades has risen while at the same time the aggregate goes… Read more »
Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
Dear Readers and Vermonters who want to make your own informed choices about your child’s healthcare: For over 30 years Vermonters got along just fine with their religious, medical, and philosophical exemption. So what changed? Well scare tactics started flying around about a big pertussis epidemic! What was really behind trying to frighten people? Check out this link and you will find out for yourself. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Kevin_Mullin The whole thing was a big trick played upon decent, intelligent Vermonters! It was NOT about your child! It was not about keeping children well! It was about power and money and taking over… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
“For over 30 years Vermonters got along just fine with their religious, medical, and philosophical exemption. So what changed?” More people in the country started using the philosophical exemption based on their belief in bad science. Vaccination rates decreased, and rates of illness increased. “It was about power and money and taking over state governments for profit” – you know as well as I do, Judy, that this is a ridiculous statement, especially with the citizen legislature that Vermont has. “If you lose the right to chose about vaccinating your child, what will be next on the agenda” – first,… Read more »
Thomas McLeod
3 years 2 months ago
While we’re on the topic of “no right is absolute,” let’s not fail to mention the right of pharma to profit from the ever increasing vaccine schedules while ducking legal liability for their dangerous and scientifically unproven products. Aren’t these the very same free-riding corporations who have paid $11 billion for fraud over the past decade? Yes, that’s “billion” with a “b”. Come now, didn’t you know that in each of the past three years vaccine manufacturers have paid more to “settle” claims of criminal fraud than the entire budget of the Vermont state government? No? Well, you seem to… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
Pharma really doesn’t profit too much from vaccines. The vaccine schedule is increasing because we are learning how to prevent more diseases, not because a CEO somewhere wants to make more money. Now – questionable things have been done by the pharmaceutical companies for their other drugs, the drugs that they want to make a lot of money on and try to get as many people to take as possible. I’m not going to defend those practices. Here’s why you can sue pharma for other drugs and not vaccines – if all the people in the country that thought they… Read more »
3 years 2 months ago
Vaccines are not 100% safe. Vaccines are, however, quite profitable. The meningococcal vaccine, for example, enjoys an 85% gross margin. And in 2011, the Federal Government awarded 6 pharmaceutical corporations over 5.7 BILLION of our tax dollars in contracts for children’s vaccines alone. That’s not chicken feed. Vaccines are not 100% safe. That is why vaccines must be accompanied by proper warnings. That is also why we must ALL defend our right to consent or refuse a vaccination. I might argue that vaccine informed consent is even more important than for any other medical procedure because vaccines are designed to… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago

The tax dollars went to the companies so that it would be possible to provide vaccinations for low income families free of charge (so that a lack of health insurance wouldn’t keep families from preventative medical care).

Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
Kathryn, You seem to get really irked with we who have done our homework on vaccines. The truth seems to scare you! Are you working for a large pharmaceutical company or someone else who has to benefit from this? You definitely have “an agenda” to be so persistent in your attempt to make the rest of us look stupid while you yourself absolutely refuse to check out the abundance of education and “factual” materials exposing the ineffectiveness and the horrible dangers of vaccines. If you care about children and about democracy as you say, why are you wanting to mandate… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
Hi Judy, I do not work for a pharmaceutical company. I work in infectious disease prevention at a local health department, so I am approaching this issue from a public health standpoint. I am also a trained biologist, so I am also approaching this issue from a scientific standpoint. My “agenda” is to try to quell some of the misinformation that is floating around on the internet about vaccines. There is a lot of it. Parents that are looking to get more information about vaccines for their children can easily be led to a website that is designed to scare… Read more »
Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago

http://thinktwice.com/

For anyone wanting to learn all about vaccines, this is an excellent place to begin.

Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
In 2009 Merck released a 72-page document showing they paid doctors at least $18,810,495.52 –close to $19 million—in the third and fourth quarters of that year for medical doctors to speak favorably about their pills and vaccines. Additionally, Pro Repulica’s “Dollar for Docs” project shows at least $761.3 million had been paid to doctors across the United States. Why do pharmaceutical companies “bribe” doctors? The apparent reason can be summarized in one word: authority. Because a doctor has an M.D. attached to his or her name and wears a white coat, 65% of the people will follow their orders without… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago

Most of the problems that pharmaceutical companies have are related to other drugs, not vaccines. Because those drugs make more money, there is more to gain from potentially illegal activity. I am not condoning this activity.

And as I have mentioned before, the CDC has contracts with some of the pharmaceutical companies so that they are able to provide free or low cost vaccines to other health departments around the country. Public health is for all people, not just those that can afford it.

James Minnich
3 years 2 months ago
Vaccines are not about Science—-It is about Politics! Should we call medicine an exact science? If medicine is always an exact science, I ask you, what happened to bloodletting and lobotomies? An “exact science” proven to be very harmful and gone by the wayside! The same may someday be said of vaccines and chemotherapy! Things seem to be called “science” when there is a lot of money waiting to be made from the procedure. And one will always notice, that when that is the case, the bad outcomes or damages caused are played down or “swept under the carpet”. People… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
Like all science, medicine is based on best practices. We have made lots of scientific progress since the 1700s, like figuring out germ theory and learning more about human anatomy. Vaccination has been around for a long time too, and the practice has improved over time, just like the rest of medicine. Science will rationally tell us the benefits of vaccinating – the anti-vaccine movement tends to use fear tactics and panic. According to your own opinion, the anti-vaccine movement must be promoting a dangerous practice, and I agree with that statement. And regarding herd immunity – it’s not a… Read more »
Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
The Heart of the Matter What is the real issue about vaccines in Vermont? Is it really a health issue at stake? Or is it politics? Just look who is behind this and who started it? Find out where the desire to mandate vaccines and to take away exemptions began. Start there, and then follow the money path! It started with state Senator Mullin from Rutland! Now why, I ask, after 30+ years, did there need to be a change? Is Senator Mullin supporting the wishes and rights of parents who elected him? Or is there another agenda he is… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago

Well, we already have requirements for school entry. Various hospitals are requiring that their doctors and nurses be vaccinated for the flu, or else wear masks the entire season. Both of these potential mandates are for protecting the public health and welfare, and before you start comparing these policies to communist Russia, I recommend that you familiarize yourself with Jacobson v Massachusetts, where the Supreme Court of the United States upholds the idea that when the safety of the general public may be at risk, individual liberties are not absolute.

Eileen Foster
3 years 2 months ago
Responding to Judith Persin’s question, “People of Vermont: I hope you are as smart as I think you are!” I do believe that when the People of Vermont are faced with the prospect of removing rights from themselves and their neighbors, they are willing and able to take the time to consider an issue carefully. I wonder if this is due to the fact Vermonters truly (and, correctly) consider the impact removing rights will have on their children and grandchildren. As we see the rights of Parents to determine medical choice for their children being restricted in other States, these… Read more »
Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
Encore, Eileen! “Most of us” know that just because a government (influenced by big lobbyists of the huge pharmaceutical companies) sets a precedent, it is not necessarily in the best interest of our children. Citizens have always had to be constantly vigilant of what is taking place in the legislative bodies and the courts of this country. For instance, our government decided to permit the patenting of life forms like Monsanto’s seeds and allowed foods from them to be secretly thrust into the food supply without you or I being told. So our own government officials thought it was fine… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 2 months ago
You say you feel sorry for people that refuse to look at the truth, but when I try to find evidence of your claims, I actually find the exact opposite. Flu vaccines have been linked to 1) less Alzheimer’s disease and 2) less death overall http://www.cmaj.ca/content/165/11/1495.full?eaf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?orig_db=PubMed&cmd=Search&defaultField=Title+Word&term=JAMA%5BJour%5D+AND+2004%5Bpdat%5D+AND+Stricker+B%5Bauthor%5D+AND+influenza I then decided to look up some of the ingredients in the Gardasil vaccine because I know you are wrong about the animal and human cells – that is what they use during culture of the vaccine, it is not actually in the final product. Here is what is actually in the vaccine… Read more »
Rebeca Lee
2 years 11 months ago

“Ridiculously small”is not a very scientific statement. I believe actual scientists use numbers. And does the Gardasil vaccine have mercury in it or not? For sure the Internet is packed with testimonials from young women with neurological damage they sincerely believe came from getting this vaccine.

Judith Persin,
3 years 2 months ago
I had to chuckle, Kathryn, when I looked at the site where you got your info on Alzheimer’s in relation to vaccines. You refuse to admit how much money is made from these toxic cocktails; and you also refuse to admit how often the pharmaceutical companies have been caught in committing fraud. So you think we should all trust them just because YOU work for the health department? You also refuse to address the truth about ALEC and Senator Mullin and how this whole thing started in VT. You also insist that “herd immunity is a real proven fact when… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 1 month ago
Is there something wrong with the Canadian Medical Association? I would think that they would be a good source for peer-reviewed studies. I am not refusing to admit that sometimes pharmaceutical companies do unethical and illegal activities in order to promote their products – it does happen, and I do not approve. And I looked at the link that you provided concerning Senator Mullen and the ALEC, and the only thing I came away with was that Senator Mullen is a member of ALEC. That doesn’t mean that he’s automatically brainwashed into doing whatever some corporation wants. I don’t see… Read more »
Judith Persin,
3 years 1 month ago
You can push all you want Kathryn! But many us are going to push right back at you! That is because you are absolutely, positively wrong about the safety of vaccines today. I notice that you did not address all the suffering and all the families who have lost their (once healthy) beautiful daughters to the wonderful “scientific” Gardasil injections! It is amazing how you pick and choose what you wish to see. Did you miss THAT on the Gardasil sight? I would love to debate you in person! TRUTH will always prevail in the end! Maybe you will read… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 1 month ago
I did not comment on the Gardasil adverse reactions because a number of the highly publicized “reactions” were later found to be fabricated. I just took a look at what has been reported to VAERS over the last year regarding the Gardasil vaccine, and many of them have no association – they got the vaccine and then a year later got sick with something else, or were not sure if they had even been vaccinated but they heard something on the news and they want to report their illness too. There are a few allergic reactions, a few more “typical”… Read more »
Jason Wells
3 years 1 month ago

Kathryn, I find it very odd that you spend so much time trying to influence the view of this issue up here in Vermont from Boston Ma. (although you keep repeating your local). I really do wonder what your real motivations are.

Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 1 month ago

I have never said that I was local. Try reading my comments again.

I grew up in Vermont, have a lot of family in Vermont, have an intense sense of pride about Vermont, and if I had the chance, I would love to raise a family in Vermont. So when a subject comes up that is a personal passion of mine, and has the ability to affect the health of the state I love, I feel compelled to weigh in.

Judith Persin,
3 years 1 month ago

Kathryn, if you loved Vermont so much why did you leave? I think the rest of us are lucky you did! We don’t need Nazi thinking here in Vermont!

Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 1 month ago

I left to pursue an educational opportunity. And I would appreciate if you stopped referring to my position as “Nazi thinking”.

Judith Persin,
3 years 1 month ago
For anyone still in doubt about vaccinating your child, do check this site out first. PLEASE This Group of Revolutionary Mothers Is Helping Save Children from Dangerous Vaccines http://vactruth.com/2013/04/13/thinking-moms-revolution/?utm_source=The+Vaccine+Truth+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2274886616-04_13_2013_revolution&utm_medium=email If you haven’t read the new book by the Thinking Moms’ Revolution (TMR), buy it now. Think About It — What Happened to These Children? Think about it. There’s that word again. Think. It’s simple. They were injured by the toxins in the vaccines. Every single drug that is currently on the market or has ever been on the market can have side effects. How can this not also be true… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 1 month ago
There is a very basic and fundamental concept in science: correlation does not equal causation. Just because two things appear related does not mean that one causes the other. Case in point: sales of organic food are correlated with the rise in autism. http://kfolta.blogspot.com/2013/02/organic-food-causes-autism.html Now, this is an extreme example, because I think most people would realize that there is no causation here. That is why in other situations, where causation is not clear, large epidemiological studies are done to examine the correlation and see if there is any merit to causation. And in all vaccine studies, there has not… Read more »
Judith Persin
3 years 1 month ago
Kathryn, Can we conclude then that the cause of your irrational thinking and narrow-mindedness is that you have gotten far too many vaccines yourself? Or, on the other hand is it just another case of “Follow the Money” and you are part of the money trail? Had you been around when blood-letting was a common practice, we know which side you would have been on, all the while declaring how scientific it was? And if you don’t want your behavior referred to as Nazi-like then why are you working so hard to control the families of Vermont when you don’t… Read more »
Kathryn Kinzel
3 years 1 month ago
I am in no way monetarily benefiting from vaccines. In fact, I probably would have better job security if more people didn’t get vaccinated and instead got sick with the diseases that vaccines prevent. However, I would prefer that people stay healthy, which is one reason why I promote vaccination. The scientific method ended blood-letting too, so saying that I would be on the side of science would be an accurate statement. Unless you are referring to the time of the ancient Greeks, and when the scientific method was only just starting to be formed. Then, there are no real… Read more »
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