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  1. My starting point: not everyone is able to get to a live meeting or has TV service that allows them to view the public broadcasting required of cable providers.

    I don’t believe it’s sensible to restrict the use of computers (mobile or not). Instead ways should be found to be sure as many folks as possible have access to whatever was shared that way.

    Done the ‘old fashioned way’ … a meeting is held where few to no folks show up for one reason or another (their right), and minutes are taken of that meeting and provided to those who would like the information after the fact.

    The exact same process can be followed by chat room, email, twitter or any other form of exchange. The only restriction I would put on all this would be that everything must be made publicly available as soon as possible – and nobody will have to sign up for anything (accounts or whatnot) to access the information.

  2. Andrew, nice one.

    There’s a “desocialization” which takes place with technology. It can “Misiform” and its also been known to drastically cut one’s ability to spell. I am no exception.

    Read more. Email and text less.

    Some changes will be good and some not so.

    Good job.

  3. As the laptop “scofflaw” on the Essex Town Selectboard, I would like to append just a few comments to Andrew Nemethy’s thought-provoking piece.

    1. The issue of laptops at our Board meetings is not truly one of “rudeness” but one of control and fear. I have been on the Board for two years and I have seen many examples of Board/staff actions to attempt to control and restrict information. You might legitimately say that the Essex Selectboard is to open meetings what black holes are to light.

    2. Linda Myers differentiates between Selectboard “work sessions” and regular meetings. To wit, her comments in the June 6, 2011, minutes: “Ms. Myers preferred that everyone be attentive to what was going on at the meeting. She did not have a problem with the use of computers during work sessions, but did have a problem with them at meetings.” It is my understanding that there is no such thing in state law as a Selectboard “work session.” There can be emergency meetings, special meetings and executive sessions, but if a work session is where the Selectboard does its work, then what does it do at its regular meetings? Not work! I fear that advertizing something as a “work session” gives the impression to the public that this is some kind of insiders gathering that is for the Selectboard only (even though an agenda notice still should be posted). I would like to see Jim Condos weigh in on this.

    3. I am proud that the Town of Essex keeps very good minutes of its meetings. It enables me and others to do considerable research on issues dating back several years. Yet, our Chair has sought in the past to change our policy on minutes from its present excellence to the minimalist approach allowed by state law. I expect that another attempt to drastically shorten our minutes will be made again in the near future. Maybe it is time that the Vermont Legislature look at the statute on minutes of public meetings (1 VSA Sec. 312(b))and change it to require more robust minutes that truly indicate the nature of the discussions and debate that take place. To say that folks can come to the Town offices and listen to the tape or watch the meeting on TV is one more way of rationalizing the reduction of the official public record available and accessible.

  4. Thank you for such a detailed piece on technology in public life. . . this question is one that the e-Vermont Community Broadband Project addresses daily as we work with rural communities to help them make best use of Internet resources. Those uses might include posting selectboard minutes online, offering video streams of a public meeting, or developing policies to ensure that using technology to engage more people doesn’t inadvertently leave others out of the process.

    We have a lot of good examples of communities adding real value to how they engage citizens by using tech tools. Front Porch Forum (an e-Vermont partner) is one example and I highly recommend their blog http://blog.frontporchforum.com/. New municipal websites developed with help from the Snelling Center for Government (also partner) are another – these sites can make public records available at any hour of the day, let you renew a dog license without driving to the town hall, and provide one more place to distribute notices of meetings and events.

    But we have to be honest with ourselves – bringing a laptop to a meeting works great for me, until I see that a college roommate just sent me an e-mail, or I remember one last thing I wanted to read on VT Digger, or I realize I need to check my phone bill, or. . . .

    It’s not an either/or debate. It’s everyone being conscious that technology is a tool and that we each have to take responsibility for using this tool in effective, productive ways.

  5. A note from CCTV/Channel 17 Town Meeting Television:

    In addition to airing on Channel 17 in Chittenden County ( http://www.cctv.org/watch-tv/channel-17-schedule) , all of our recordings are available on-line and on-demand at – http://www.cctv.org/watch-tv/municipalities.

    Also, anyone can come into our offices at 294 No. Winooski Avenue in Burlington and use our extensive video archive.

    Great article and here’s the link to watch recent Essex Selectboard meetings http://www.cctv.org/watch-tv/series/essex-selectboard

    1. Hello Nick,

      Thank you for all of your hard work at Channel 17.

      While some may disagree, it is my humble opinion that a library or archive in this case, is only as good as its contents.

      On Thursday December 4th 2008 Channel 17 filmed our Ward 6 Burlington NPA meeting. As the meetings are public they are all filmed.

      Do you know what happened to this film? Do you know why nobody can find it?

      This film included our police chief Michael Schirling speaking about “Community Policing” which was why I went to that particulaar meeting. He was in uniform and previously scheduled to speak about his topic.

      I was so amazed to find out that the tape (along with several others) wasn’t anywhere to be found in your archive. Several members of our ward six NPA Steering committee described it as “Missing.”

      How can the public trust us if the police are allowed to just help themselves to your archive? I’ve included a separate chapter in my book describing this episode.

      This incident is an example of the types of police misconduct which puts Vermont at the top of the list for our entire nation. That’s right, Vermont has the highest police misconduct rate IN THE NATION per capita of police officers – (NPMSRP/www.injusticeeverywhere.com)

      We, the private citizens of Burlington need Channel 17, to maintain those ethical standards which would not be compromised by anyone including and especially the police.

      I don’t want to be “Mean” or disrespectful in any way but Vermont is three and a half times the national average for police misconduct and incidents like this are exactly how it happens.

      Why wouldn’t Channel 17 make copies of “archived” public meetings?

      Can the police come and just help themselves?

      Shouldn’t there be a copy somewhere?

      Thank you again Nick for your hard work and if you know of a way for us to acquire a copy of the Channel 17 tape for the above stated meeting, it would be much appreciated.

  6. Helen’s comment is spot on: It’s not an either/or debate. It’s everyone being conscious that technology is a tool and that we each have to take responsibility for using this tool in effective, productive ways.

    Must we really seek to regulate every possible use of every possible idea or tool?

    A laptop might be seen is ‘rude’ or ‘inattentive’, but so can tapping a pencil on a notepad. Is taking notes on a laptop worse than taking them on paper? What if we wish to research a question of statutes ‘live’ during a meeting? Sometimes it can be easier to search electronically.

    Here, we often use a laptop and projector during municipal meetings, because then everyone can see maps, site plans, architectural designs, or budget spreadsheets more effectively than on an easel or on printed handouts, and it’s far easier to help everyone see and understand where we are on the page, so to speak.

    Further, if we seek to ban anything that everyone does not have access to, then where is the logical end to that? No blog because not everyone has a computer, no televised meetings because not everyone has a TV, or has cable access; might as well ban paper because not everyone can read. This is not intended as criticism of anyone’s abilities, strengths, or weaknesses, but more as criticism of our seeming desire in society to make everything in life as an all or nothing choice; typically a false dichotomy in most circumstances.

    I do agree that overreliance on technology, especially at the expense of direct social interaction or enjoyment of activities or the environment, can be very negative. That said, if we use tools wisely, then we can improve out ability to be effective and efficient in accomplishing tasks, whether in governance and public policy or in our private lives.

    Thanks for listening.

    Lee

  7. This is a fascinating and poignant issue well presented by Mr. Nemethy. Insertion of technology into the traditional talk, pen and paper world of public meetings should and will create controversy. Only then will we find the right balance of efficiency and openness in our public discourse and decision making.

    The public record should be accurate, complete and hopefully electronic. The future demands no less.

  8. Bruce,

    Thanks for the question…

    It has been the position of this office with my predecessor and is now with me, that if you have a legislative body with a quorum discussing or doing the business under its control, then it is a public meeting and needs to be warned and minutes taken. It does not matter if its a work session or regular meeting.

    Here’s a section of the Open Meeting Guide that my office has on its website:

    MEETINGS OF A PUBLIC BODY MUST BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
    • Public must be given notice of the meeting.
    • Public must be allowed to attend the meeting and be heard.
    • Minutes of the meeting must be taken.

    WHO DOES THE OPEN MEETING LAW APPLY TO?
    This open meeting law applies to all boards, councils and commissions of the state and its political sub-divisions (i.e. municipalities), including subcommittees of these bodies. This means the open meeting law governs meetings of selectboards, planning commissions, boards of civil authority, recreation commissions, municipal public library trustees, auditors, listers, etc.

    WHEN DOES THE OPEN MEETING LAW APPLY?
    Whenever a quorum (a majority) of a public body meets to discuss the business of the board or to take action, the open meeting law will apply. This means that if a majority of a board find themselves together at a social function they must take care not to discuss the business of the board!

    HOW DOES A BOARD NOTICE ITS MEETINGS?
    • A board schedules regular meetings by adopting a
    resolution setting the time and place of the meeting.
    This information must be made available to the public.
    • A board holding a special meeting must, at least 24 hours
    before the meeting, publicly announce the time, place
    and purpose of the meeting by notifying the board members
    and the local news media and any other media that has
    specifically requested notification, and by posting
    notice of the meeting in or near the clerk’s office and
    in two other public places in the municipality.
    • An emergency meeting may be held in the event of a true
    emergency without public announcement as long as some
    public notice is given as soon as possible before the
    meeting.

    WHAT IS THE PUBLIC’S RIGHT TO BE HEARD?
    At an open meeting the public must be given a reasonable opportunity to comment on matters considered by the board, subject to reasonable rules set by the chair of the board.

    Hope that helps…

    Jim Condos
    Secretary of State

  9. I think Linda Myers may be digging her heels in regard to the Modern Age. She railed against reading on a Kindle at a recent Board meeting, not considering that reading in any form, especially for children, is a good thing. I have been taking notes on computer rather than by hand for years. Less strain on the fingers and once taken, permanently stored, digitally.

    As to being rude, Ms Myers and other Board members routinely rifle through their paperwork at Board meetings and look down to take notes while members of the public speak. Recently I was at a meeting and had my hand raised for three agenda items and Linda Myers didn’t acknowledge me all three times. If you look at the Channel 17 film, you can see my hand and a reporter’s (Mike Donaghue’s) hand waving back and forth in front of the camera to no avail. Before I left the meeting in disgust, I stood up and windmilled my arms and still Linda did not react. Since there were only about four or five members of the public in the room and I was sitting directly in front of Linda Myers, I, logically, thought Linda was intentionally ignoring me, a violation of open meeting law. Linda Myers said she did not see my hand up and explained that she often doesn’t see members of the audience with their hands up, because she is “concentrating on the discussion.”

    As to using technology at a meeting, I think using a computer to take notes is no different than doing so with pen and paper. Board members Tweeting or using Facebook is another story, since the audience cannot witness the tweets and that could be considered a technological hybrid of an executive session.

    As to abreviated minutes, I’m not sure why the Board would take a step backward like that, except to limit public access to the content of the meetings. That is absurd in this digital age, when it is so easy to give the public access to information. The reason given for shortening the minutes is to save time. Presently, the Essex Town Manager’s office reviews and sometimes edits the minutes of the Board, Planning Commission and all Committees. If we want to save time we should take the editing and reviewing out of the Town Manager’s hands and place that task with the Board and the Committees where it belongs. There is no need for both the Manager’s office and the Board to edit minutes.

  10. Discussion about the role of technology for communications among members of a public body was one of the reasons the public meeting law revision got derailed in the past legislative session.

    The bill is still alive, since this was the first year of the biennium session. But it is hard to find agreement around these issues.

    Is an e-mail between two members of a three-member board a meeting? Are teleconferences acceptable for holding public meetings?

    Look for more of these questions to come up next year. New technology offers so many more opportunities to keep government open. Yet agreement on its appropriate use is hard to find.

    1. Mr Gilbert,

      How nice to hear from you.

      How are the police in our state allowed to violate our 4th Amendment Rights so Easily?

      If I were an officer of the law, I’d be ashamed of some of the “survaillance activities” we use, especially on peaceful law abiding citizens.

      I believe the public is partially responsible in that we are stupid. That’s right, Americans differentiate themselvs from the rest of the world with a kind of “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire” mentality and the police just hop on for the ride. Its job security for them and if they can scare some judge into signing a survaillance warrent, then they’re off and running.

      Police are experts at “Fear Mongering” and our puritanical society has revived a “Salem Witchcraft” type of response. I’ll spend the rest of my life writing about it.

      The ambiguity or hipocracy is astonashing.

  11. I’d like to begin by complimenting Mr. Nemethy for a well-written, balanced article.

    However, I do have one major concern that was only mentioned briefly in the article.

    Given the easy access to the internet and instant messaging, how do we know that it’s still an open meeting?

    I sat at the Essex Selectboard meeting on Monday, July 18 with my laptop open, connected to the internet, the entire time. If any member of the selectboard had their laptop open and also connected to the internet, I could have been instant messaging with them. That’s not an “open” discussion.

    For that matter, someone not even in the room could be doing the same thing. They could be telling selectboard members what to say, how to think and most frighteningly, they could be telling a selectboard member how to vote on a subject.

    How do I, as a concerned member of the public, know that the people in the room are making their decisions without unknown influence?

    People above have mentioned the selectboard having the ability to research something electronically during the meeting. That means the selectboard members would have to have internet access. And without being able to see their screens, there is no way anyone will convince me to simply “trust” that they aren’t communicating with some unknown person.

    I’m a senior financial analyst for a local, major manufacturing firm. We have regular financial and business audits. And a key point that is always made in process audits is that “trust is not a business control.”

    Until someone comes up with a way to guarantee that selectboard members actively using technology at meetings aren’t having private digital conversations, I’ll be opposed to them having laptops, tablets and smart phones open during the meetings.

    As an aside, this same major technology firm also has quite a few meeting sessions where “no laptops open” is a standard operating procedure. If someone has a laptop opened, they are asked to leave the room or the conversation is halted. This very scenario happened in meetings on July 20 and 21, 2011. So I’m not talking about older policies.

    And last but not least, I’m a member of generation X, so I’m hardly a “curmudgeonly old timer.” I personally own a 4G smart phone with hot spot capability, a tablet and multiple laptops/netbooks. I’m very much in favor of technology.

    But I’m more in-favor of Vermont’s open meeting law.

    1. I’ve never seen anything that says board members can’t have private interactions during an open board meeting. We can’t in these private discussions talk about the business at hand and take action, but we can communicate off the record.

      It is a matter of trust. If you don’t feel you can trust your local select/school/other board member(s) the appropriate action is to replace her/him.

      With that said if I were running a meeting that had an internet connection and laptops or tablets, I would insist on a software platform that makes all communications and documentation available to everyone who has access to the internet.

      We need to remember that not relying solely on the printed paper can save a few bucks, but more importantly there are many folks nowadays who would rather use the computer for just the above. We need to accommodate today and tomorrow – even when we’re not sure what tomorrow will look like.

  12. Robyn Moore failed to disclose that she is the daughter of Linda Myers, Chair of the Essex Selectboard. I would enjoy knowing what network or WiFi connection she was using. Personally, when I launch my laptop at an Essex SB meeting, I see two WiFi connections, both of which are locked. One says, “ToE”. When I inquired if that were available to the SB, our assistant town manager replied, “I hope not.” Evidently, that is the Essex PD network.

    Ms. Myers-Moore might very well have gotten a connection where she was. Regardless, I can categorically deny that I had access to any internet connection.

    Ms. Myers-Moore might also reflect on how easy it is to violate our open meetings law even without technology. Her mother tried to violate it a couple of meetings ago by raising an issue in executive session, an issue that had not been warned and was not appropriate for executive session. Only the objection of one board member stopped her from proceeding.

  13. I’m pleased to see this article spur some thoughtful commentary and that VtDigger posts are civil even though they can be pointed at times. A credit to Vermonters.

    After researching and reporting on this issue for several weeks, it’s clear to me that each town/city is going to have to adapt and confront issues of digital use and openness to some degree. I was surprised to see how “advanced” some towns are, largely due to involved tech-savvy citizens as well as citizens who see technology as a way to open up the meeting and government process.

    This is not to say the “old ways” do not work, it’s just that our expectations are changing and life and government is more complicated. (I’m sure town clerks are happy to have Quicken or other accounting software and not do ledgers – especially when it comes to state education aid!)
    Change is part of life and technology’s advance is relentless and as Deputy Secretary of State Brian Leven noted, we increasingly expect to find what we want on the web, whether it’s the town budget, delinquent taxes or zoning rulings.

    Several posts mention that ultimately, trust is at the heart of a working system, the belief that town officials are working honestly for us (and not taking voting directions via Twitter or clandestine emails). I am optimistic that Vermont will be able to work its way through this digital transition/transformation without the need for extensive legal redefinitions in the Legislature, though clearly some issues will need to be addressed especially regarding access to new forms of digital material sought by the media – i.e., such as arrest videos on police cruisers. As an earlier post mentioned, digital devices are just tools, albeit different ones from ones we used 50 years ago.

    Andrew Nemethy
    Adamant, Vt.

  14. “It is a matter of trust. If you don’t feel you can trust your local select/school/other board member(s) the appropriate action is to replace her/him.” (Quoted from above)

    I would love to take appropriate action and elect someone that I trust.

  15. In response to Mr. Post’s most recent comments, I am indeed Linda Myers’ daughter. However, I’m a tax paying resident of Essex. And therefore, I’m entitled to my opinion, just like any other resident. My relationship does not disqualify me from attending public meetings, speaking out about subjects of concern to me and voting.

    And secondly, I was not using either WiFi signal that Mr. Post mentioned while I was at the selectboard meeting.

    With all due respect to Mr. Post, as a vocal proponent of technology use, I would have thought that he would have automatically known that I carry my own internet signal by my notation that I own a 4G smart phone with hot spot capability. And that means that any selectboard member could be doing the same thing. He can categorically deny having access, but any selectboard member can have internet access relatively easily, just as I do.

    And considering that he chooses to attack other selectboard members publicly, a somewhat unprofessional choice, he proves my point that controls other than “trust” should be in place.

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