Montpelier 5/20/2012
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  1. Why is it “share the pain” always means pain for the middle and lower economic classes and so the rich and lovely can have a bigger share?

    Raise some taxes, cut some spending.

  2. Agreed, Rama, and “We the People” will have to actively engage our legislators to insist they do so. We can call them, drop in on them at the legislature, tell them how we feel … and come out to the State House this Saturday at noon in solidarity with people fighting for jobs, wages, bargaining rights, and –most important–for Democracy nationwide.

  3. Absolutely take this step, and please, in the future, include “Democrats” as supporters of this move as well. Hurrah for Pollina and Pearson and small hopeful noises for John Campbell (to whom we in Windsor COunty will be talking) and to Shap Smith for not outright going along with the Governor. When I heard the Governor’s budget and I realized I’d helped put this man in the job, I thought, “Oh! He is playing bad cop so the Legislature can play good cop.” But as time went on I’ve begun to worry. Thank you, thank you to all legislators who will support this act. The services slated for sutting are a pretty nearly rock bottom anyway — at lease in my field of mental health this is true.

  4. The wealthy are people with money who invest in the economy. Without those investments, the economy would wither and not be able to pay for state government.

    The order of business it to first make the economy stronger and create jobs that PRODUCE goods and services and tax revenues, then to tax.

    Putting the cart before the horse is unwise.

    1. The major problem with that argument is tax cuts have NEVER helped to grow us out of an economic hole. Quite the opposite – when HW Bush and then Clinton pushed through consecutive tax increases in the nineties the economy improved. When Reagan reversed himself and started raising taxes the economy started to improve in the eighties. When we had near confiscatory marginal income and estate taxes in the 50s and 60s our economy roared.

      Oh, and don’t forget we had growing unions in those 50s and 60s too!

    2. “The wealthy are people with money who invest in the economy.”

      There is absolutely no evidence that most of the wealth of Vermonters is invested in Vermont. Obviously some of the wealth is here is the form of small and mid-sized businesses. But for the most part, the assets that give rise to interest, dividends, and capital gains are NOT in Vermont (and that’s almost a quarter of all income in VT).

      So yes, the wealthy invest in the economy; just not here. Lots of jobs are being created; just not here.

      The growth is in China, India, and Brazil. And that’s where the Fortune 500 is as well.

      It is a mistake to assume that tax breaks for wealthy Vermonters result in jobs in Vermont.

  5. Yes, New Hampshire has NO income tax rate as Governor Shumlin points out (as did former Gov. Douglas and Lt. Gov. Dubie).

    But what they never tell you is that New Hampshire also has some other fees and methods to collect money from citizens (and visitors) that Vermont does not utilize.

    What about the fact that New Hampshire has a state-run network of Liquor Stores? These stores are not in the “free market” as they are run by State of New Hampshire. They don’t need to charge sales tax, because they recoup the net profit on liquor sales!

    What about the fact that New Hampshire charges road tolls? They collect money not only from residents, but tourists and those that travel through to Boston (i.e. the toll booth on I-93 between Concord, NH and Mass. border, and another one going towards Maine).

    What about the fact that New Hampshire charges a lot more for vehicle registration fees?

    I am not in total agreement with the Pearson / Pollina bill (but I understand where they are coming from). But I say first let’s try to do what New Hampshire does, other than just say, “NH doesn’t have sales or income tax”. That line is getting very old and tired. New Hampshire has road tolls fees, higher vehicle registration fees and state-run liquor stores. Let’s put that on the table.

    Anne, could you please ask Gov. Shumlin to address these 3 specific fees / net profits that New Hampshire DOES have at an upcoming press conference?

    http://vtdigger.org/2010/10/28/pulcer-the-rest-of-the-story/

    As someone who lives in Rutland County and commutes to Chester and does not use an Interstate (even go to Burlington, Middlebury, Manchester or Bennington), I say put toll booths on I-89 and I-91 to capture toll fees from New Hampshire and Massachusetts residents who use our Interstates in Vermont. The Mass Pike (I-90) has toll sections and I must pay when I use it!

    I also suggest that we have a “shared sacrifice question” on the Vermont tax form. I think it’s better to start by first “asking” (nicely) to help out rather than take try to force higher income taxes. I had suggested this for the Federal 1040 form, but this type of question could also placed on the Vermont Income Tax form. Tax filers (citizens) can choose Yes or No, and hopefully enough will say Yes to help towards balancing the budget.

    http://vtdigger.org/2010/12/01/pulcer-the-shared-sacrifice-question/

    I am a middle-class working person. I am sure the wealthy Vermonters will find a tax dodge or loophole. What is left of middle-class may end up being the actual people affected by the Pearson / Pollina bill (remember legislation usually has unintended consequences).

  6. I wish I’d heard about the press conference in time for me to attend. I absolutely support raising taxes on the wealthy and don’t buy the argument that the wealthy would flee the state. Most people live in VT because they love VT and what the state stands for. Cutting essential services to the most vulnerable Vermonters is not my idea of what our government should be doing, now or ever.

  7. Allowing people to keep money that they earned is not a “give away” as the article suggests. It’s time to cut government spending. Somehow it has become acceptable to take money from someone who earned it honestly simply because they have it. High taxes hinder economic development. Wealthy people obviously have more options than the rest of do. One person thought the wealthy would not leave. Thats true and not true. Some are leaving. I know some of them. Kids are graduating and leaving for the same reason. Out of state companies do not move to Vermont. Heres a question, if you knew you could get away with it, would you steal from a wealthy person? If your answer is no, then why is it ok for government to do it for you?

    1. Pick up a dictionary and look up ‘society’. I think you’ll find it illuminating.

    2. Kids are not leaving Vermont because of taxes.

    3. “Kids are graduating and leaving for the same reason.”

      That’s not true. For the most part, young people coming out of college don’t make enough money to worry about taxes. On average, those who earn $35,000 in Vermont pay about $700 per year in state income taxes (and young folks typically don’t own homes so they don’t pay property taxes directly).

      On the other hand, wages in NYC and Boston are often 20% – 40% higher than in Vermont. If you graduated with a bunch of education debt, what would you do?

      BTW – Census data has shown us for years that middle-aged folks move to Vermont and bring skills and resources (as some are able and willing to earn less because they want to be here).

      A lot of what you think is factual is just a myth perpetuated by those who don’t like paying taxes and have the wherewithall to influence the debate and public policy.

  8. Go, Anthony, Chris and Co.

    The Right loves to equate taxation with theft, that Big Government (which they largely control) is stealing money that is rightfully theirs, that they “earned.” Well, that concept of ‘earned” is a debatable proposition. Those who are living fat off investments are reaping the rewards of other people’s work. Those who built businesses and got rich – more power to them – didn’t succeed without a lot of other folks working on their behalf. Did all those people who made the success possible “earn” a fair share? Worth analyzing.

    And let’s not forget legions of low-wage workers who perform tasks essential to the daily running of the economy but who struggle along on very little. Clerks, day-care workers, EMTs (one of whom may save the life of one of the wealthy and still only pull down about $35,000 a year), all those people who keep things going. Is it okay that they continue to struggle and worry and face even greater insecurity in the future while the people they help support live sleek and warm?

  9. One other thing occurs to me: it’s been argued that, at the national level, the wealthy actually pay a smaller percentage of their incomes in taxes compared to the rest of us. Has anybody performed this kind of analysis – Doug? Paul Cillo? – at the Vermont level?

    Perhaps raising taxes on the wealthy would only level the playing field.

    1. John – ITEP does this every few years.

      http://www.itepnet.org/wp2009/vt_whopays_factsheet.pdf

      Vermont’s tax system is more equitable than most, but the wealthy still pay a lower percentage of income than the middle class.

  10. “Yes, New Hampshire has NO income tax rate as Governor Shumlin points out.”

    New Hampshire also has some of the nation’s highest property taxes, especially on second homes. There was a time not too long ago when NH towns were revolting against the property tax to fund schools. The towns, like Claremont, for one, an old and scrappy mill town at the time, were going bankrupt because of the property taxes and went to the NH supreme court over it. I have a friend in Stowe, for instance, who pays about half as much in taxes for ten acres than my brother, who lives in Wilmot, New Hampshire, for the ten acres that he owns. Ron is also right about the fees. I was shocked at how little it cost here in VT to register a car compared to NH. There is also a business profits tax. And, in addition to the booze stores on 89, NH also rans horse and dog tracks to bring in money.

    Another thing to remember about NH is that the social services there are half, if not less, than what Vermont has. It is also more difficult to get help if you need it. If you lose your job, for instance, and everything else, there is no vhap or catamount (such as it is) to fall back on. There is a medicaid program, like Vhap (I forget its name), but the income eligibility is even lower and they make you renew every six months. Otherwise, You are on your own. Your tough luck. While poverty is grim everywhere, it is grimmer in NH than here. I’ve seen it.

  11. What was expected of Shumlin as the new governor were a single payer health plan for Vermonters and shutting down Vermont Yankee, and those are the reasons why I voted for him. But I am appalled at his refusal to raise taxes on the wealthy. This country has never experienced such a massive and rapid shift of wealth to the top as now. Shumlin’s own wealth is getting in the way of his seeing the necessity of having the rich pay what they can afford. It is unconscionable to cut social services or any services that provide for the general public good. The legislature needs to do what Shumlin is too timid or self-interested to do. It’s long overdue that we had a real progressive tax structure. My thanks to Pollina and Pearson.

  12. “We all know Vermont is not an island,” Shumlin said. “We all know people will pay a certain amount of tax on the state level, and when those taxes are disproportionate to those in neighboring states, they migrate.”

    This is a very good point about state-level tax policy. Shumlin apparently forgot his own advice when he proposed a health care plan supported by a 14% payroll tax. A small tax on wealthy Vermonters is pretty harmless in comparison, yet he balks at it and suddenly becomes fiscal conservative.

  13. ‘“Part of my workforce development is to make Vermont ‘the education state,’” said Shumlin, who said that for there to be a strong workforce in Vermont, the children who will be the state’s next generation of workers need to be well educated and education needed to start soon to be more productive.’ (Shumlin: Education law is taking its toll, Times Argus, 02/27/11)

    I voted for Shumlin because of the need for government provided single payer health insurance, the need to shut down Vermont Yankee and what appeared to be Shumlin’s declaration of an end to the war against local school districts and the boards that oversee them.

    The wart I was willing to let slide for the time being is Shumlin’s wholesale acceptance of the very same neo-CONservate economic ideology – that’s the whine that says “Gee – if only we pander to the rich and lovely, our economy would be great!”

    We see Shumlin’s economic malfeasance reflected quite well in his statement regarding eduction: a child’s education isn’t about turning out a well rounded adult who can participate in a healthy society, but instead a child’s education is about providing a worker for the rich and lovely.

    I’m not sure if Shumlin’s willingness to suspend healthy and positive values on the economy would make me not vote for him in two years, but I do know a willingness on Shumlin’s part to include economic ideas such as increases in taxes on upper incomes would cement my support for him.

    I hate to admit it, but I think I’ve been buffaloed into beleiving Shumlin and I shared some basic human values.

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