Montpelier 5/20/2012
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  1. While I don’t subscribe to the hysteria promulgated by some in the GOP regarding Social Security, I still feel compelled to point out that Sen. Sanders appears to be playing fast-and-loose with the facts about Social Security’s solvency. He counters the argument that Social Security’s surplus is illusory by noting that in fact it’s funded by, “U.S Treasury bonds, the safest interest-bearing securities in the world.” He notes this fact as if, somehow, U.S. Treasury bonds are *separate* from taxpayers. But the “full faith and credit” of the federal government can only be paid by us, the taxpayers. In other words, the “surplus” is a liability owed by the American people, to be paid either through tax revenues or borrowing. Sen. Sanders rightly excoriates Wall Street for its greed, but Sen. Sanders’ is advocating the position that liabilities are assets; how is this any more enlightened than the idiocy he scorns?

    And when it comes to Social Security’s long-term solvency, what Sen. Sanders conveniently leaves out of his narrative is the fact that Social Security isn’t even means-tested. He paints a picture of old people being left to starve, freeze, and go without their meds, whereas in fact rich people receive Social Security just like folks who are barely scraping by. Why won’t Sen. Sanders advocate the common-sense approach of means-testing Social Security so that only those who truly need it receive it? He’s all about taxing the rich at higher rates because they can afford it; it’s logically inconsistent for him to NOT advocate that socially secure persons should not receive Social Security.

  2. I think anyone who pays into Social Security should be able to draw from it when they retire even if they have other means. The simplest and most fair solution is not increasing the retirement age, and absolutely not privatizing. The wealthiest Americans have just been given a tremendous gift by Congress and President Obams with the extension of the Bush tax cuts. We should be collecting Social Security Tax on all income and taxing the earnings of those Wall Street types who make millions (or billions) on dividends and capital gains (think hedge fund managers) yet pay only 15%.

    This year’s Social Security tax cut is only making the problem worse. We went from what Bernie says – the system was solvent far into the future – to a situation where Social Security is now running in the red this year. My more cynical side wonders if this is really a plot by Republican and ‘small government’ advocates to starve Social Security and justify their arguments that it is broken, and naturally that privatization is the only way to fix it? They have been remarkably successful these past few years convincing Americans that big bad governement and public employees are the cause of all economic and financial woes. Despite no credible evidence to support this argument.

    Social Security is the Defined Benefit Retirement Plan for all Americans. If we allow it to be undermined, just as there are those who want to strip public employees of their benefits, we face a bleak future where the vast majority of Americans live in poverty.

    1. Mr. Hamlin,

      People like George Soros, Bill Gates, and the hedge fund managers you vilify clearly don’t need Social Security payments. It makes no sense to me that liberals advocate progressive taxes, but then, for some reason, believe that even rich people should have taxpayer-funded subsidies like Medicare and Social Security.

      Is it because there is guilt associated with taxing them more? I can’t imagine that’s the case.

      So *why* should rich people who DON’T need Social Security get as much of this benefit as those who DO need it?

  3. Bernie Sanders is a true patriot who defends a Defined Pension System created 75 years ago so that all Americans can avoid poverty when they retire in old age.
    Why do Americans have to worry about the solvency of a system that is protected in most Western Democracies in the world?
    Why should we always be worried about the fact that the US is the only wealthy advanced democracy that espouses rugged individualism but really has a history in its infancy of the promotion of the general welfare.
    The US is a society that is inherently fairminded but has extreme tendecies to promote Dog Eat Dog mentality especially with Republican Extremists in control of most of Congres in 2011.
    Social Security is safe until 2037. Why not make it more safer by making sure those who make more than $250,000 pay their fair share? Why should the working poor and the Middle Class fight to keep it whole and stable?

  4. You assume a lot about people. Did I say anything about Medicare?
    I didn’t vilify anyone. I stated my opinion that people who make their living on capital gains and dividends could be taxed at the same rate as people who earn wages. Do you think it’s fair that someone who makes $5 billion (as one hedge fund manager actually did last year) pays a lower tax rate than someone who makes a miniscule fraction of that amount in wages? Whether a rich retired person needs social security or not, when they were working they paid the same percentage of their wages (up to about $106,000) as everyone else. If I leave my employer I get to take what I contributed to my retirement with me. If the rich don’t need social security would you advocate a refund of the Social Security taxes they paid all their lives?

    1. Mr. Hamlin,

      You’re right, you didn’t vilify anyone; I read something into your reply that wasn’t there, and I apologize.

      However, to your question about whether the rich should get a refund, I answer no, they should not. And nor should they get tax breaks that the rest of us don’t get. But when it comes to Social Security, it should provide retirement benefits only to people who need it, and should be funded by everyone who has the ability to pay.

      And I pointed to Medicare only as another example of a program that isn’t means-tested, but should be. In other words, I believe these programs should help only those who need it.

      1. Thanks. I think you can make a good argument to means test social security. I wonder about the fairness of not paying benefits to someone who paid in, but on the other hand the same could be said of almost any taxpayer funded social program.

        1. The long running success and popularity of Social Security and Medicare is found, I believe, in the fact these programs are based on everyone participating and everyone benefiting. These programs are both designed to be insurance programs.

          I would not like to see it means tested.

          I fully support both these programs, and I fully support keeping them mandatory and a tax.

          I believe any tax increases to fund these programs should be distributed across all payers, and there is a good argument to be made regarding a progressive tax structure.

      2. You obviously care about means testing but even if it were adopted it would have no appreciable impact on the health of the system. The people you’re referring to (Soros, Gates, et al) represent a teeny tiny percentage of all those who will receive benefits. Even if you expand it to the top 1% (in VT that’s filers reporting > $300k), it’s so few people that redistributing their foregone benefits is basically a rounding error.

        1. Mr. Hoffer,

          I would think individuals making more than $200K and families making more than $250K would be ineligible for government-funded retirement payments (using the same cutoff as was proposed for who should be ineligible for the Bush tax-cut extension). I actually think people making substantially less than that should have no trouble saving for their retirement and paying taxes to support those less able to do so, but that’s just a gut feel and I don’t want to jump too far into matters with which I’m not familiar.

  5. The simple answer to funding is to raise the income limit from the current $106,800. We don’t have to go up to a billion dollars in income either. That’s too simple and straightforward however. The Holy Grail for some Republicans however is: financial protection of the most wealthy Americans. They give the most money to politicians.

  6. Raise the social security tax and limit the amount that we give to the wealthy!!!!!!!

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